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Final Cut Pro 7 and beforeForum → FCP7, Avid, FCPx, or CS5.5

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  • Profile picture of jeff marier jeff marier said 7 months, 2 weeks ago ago:

    arrghh…
    When I started editing video I started on FCP3 on a G4 for a small production company and always swore when I returned to the industry I would have a mac with FCPstudio…
    Well, in a few months I will finally be able to transfer over to an imac (which despite Mr. Jobs death I still have a great deal of faith in their computers). But with the scathing reviews of FCPX, and the years of Premeire Pro essentially trying to become more like FCP(7 and older), I’m wondering if I should get CS5.5 for the Mac. I guess my main concern is, is there any evidence that apple intends to revive FCP? or is it done with the professional arena? thoughts?

  • Profile picture of Josh Mellicker Josh Mellicker said 7 months, 2 weeks ago ago:

    For those who have been editing with FCP7, it’s an easy decision, just stay with it. If you are buying, it’s a little more difficult. Premiere Pro won’t shine on an iMac, it needs a Mercury engine compatible graphics card, FCPX is not ready to evaluate (or use) yet. I would still say FCP7 is your best option currently.

  • Profile picture of jeff marier jeff marier said 7 months, 2 weeks ago ago:

    hmmm, well, riddle me this…If I’m going to spend about $1200 on an imac, is there a $1200 pc that Premiere will shine on? my guess is no…(?)

  • Profile picture of Josh Mellicker Josh Mellicker said 7 months, 2 weeks ago ago:

    If you can put together a system with a Quadro, possibly: http://www.nvidia.com/object/adobe_PremiereproCS5.html

  • Profile picture of jeff marier jeff marier said 7 months, 2 weeks ago ago:

    ugh,..yeah, I suppose if I built my own system…not sure I’d want to do that for my first computer upgrade in 8 years…

  • Profile picture of jeff marier jeff marier said 7 months, 2 weeks ago ago:

    …and possibly the only upgrade for a few more..

  • Profile picture of Josh Mellicker Josh Mellicker said 7 months, 2 weeks ago ago:

    It’s tough to advise you to purchase FCS3 for $999, knowing it is “discontinued”… but FCS3 + one of the new iMacs would make a fine editing workstation.

    If I were building a system from scratch today, I would have to seriously consider a Win7-based CS 5.5 system with a super fast Quadro card, not saying I would go that way, I would need to research it carefully, I haven’t really looked into that for several years.

    I can’t recommend FCPX at this time, it’s nowhere near ready to use… but in a year or two, who knows? If it ends up with FCP7′s UI, but faster, able to edit any codec and with all the bugs fixed, FCPX would be the greatest editing app of all time. I’m just not sure people at Apple are thinking in that direction.

  • Profile picture of jeff marier jeff marier said 7 months, 2 weeks ago ago:

    well josh, I have to say I’m quite speechless..I remember posting a question on pros and cons of PC vs. Mac about 9 years ago (back then my username was newbie) and you were quite fixed on your position in support of Mac, now it seems if I go Mac that I should get FCS3 with Snow Leopard (if that’s even possible). It seems that apple as a whole is bending more toward gadgetry and cutting edge image, which is uber cool but just not practical for my needs….I may have missed the ‘golden age’..

    any final thoughts concerning Avid? (I used to use xpress DV back in the day for a while, but haven’t fooled with Avid since)

  • Profile picture of Josh Mellicker Josh Mellicker said 7 months, 2 weeks ago ago:

    I just haven’t worked with Avid MC or Adobe lately… Avid MC 6 looks interesting but we’ll need to wait and see.

    I have everything Apple makes, and I use all Mac computers, but I already have FCS3, it’s just a little different if you are buying a system now. FCP7 is great, I have newfound appreciation for it lately! :)

  • Profile picture of Jon Preston Jon Preston said 7 months, 2 weeks ago ago:

    I would seriously consider Media !00. A very friendly, intuitive, and professional edit system. Runs on Mac. Red code, quicktime codecs, etc. 14 day free trial, too. Now owned by Boris FX. Just a thought.

  • Profile picture of jeff marier jeff marier said 7 months, 2 weeks ago ago:

    wow, haven’t heard ‘media 100′ in awhile…it looks pretty good, but I’m a little hesitant because most of my video buddies are using FCP or Premiere…The more I’m looking into it, I’m thinking I just don’t have the Budget to make Premiere really shine, BUT..it should still run reasonably well even on a lower rung imac

  • Profile picture of Josh Mellicker Josh Mellicker said 7 months, 1 week ago ago:

    Jon, are you using Media 100?

  • Profile picture of Michael Couch Michael Couch said 6 months, 2 weeks ago ago:

    Here’s my take on this – it depends on what you are working with. I prefer to use FCP, but I have a regular client that uses CS5.5. CS5.5 can be like a wrestling match at times, and I’ve had cases where I go to export a movie, and it’s jumpy. There’s no fix other than to start the project over. Fortunately it does not happen often, but it can happen. Yo can’t copy the time line and paste to a new project – it takes the jumpy with it. The one consistent thing on this is it seems to happen when you have multiple timelines going. All you can do is just import your footage to a new file, than start taking notes in the old project about all of your cuts, and redo them in the new.

    But, CS5 does have a couple advantages over FCP. The biggest being that CS5 can natively handle AVCHD files. I can just import them to CS5 and hit the road running. It will also play the timeline without needed to render first. You will have to render to output your final product, but not while actually editing. So none of FCP’s beep-beep-beep-beep. Final Cut says it will handle AVCHD files, but what it actually does is import and convert them, and you can’t just import them. You have to hook up the camera or insert the SD card (if that’s what you are using). So it’s kind of like being in the days of using tapes. In my case, the files are copied from the cameras to a thumbdrive, so it’s no go with FCP.

    CS5 does have a better titling function. It’s so simple that it seems complicated. The great thing is, in one title sequence, I can have multiple titles of all sorts of fonts and sizes, along with the graphics, instead of having to do all as separate pieces. When you create a title, it becomes and asset in the project bin, and you just drop it on the timeline wherever you want.

    The last big thing that CS5 does blow FCP away with is DVD authoring, specifically sending the project over. With FCP you have to export to a movie file of some sort, then use your DVD authoring software. Let’s not forget that FCP X does not have any DVD authoring software, and DVD studio pro does not do Blu-Ray. With CS5, you tell it to send the project to Encore, and it loads right up. No need to export anything.

    The other cool part about Encore is you can edit the menu’s in photoshop. It’s another point that takes a time or two to get used to, but once you have the hang of it, it’s actually very easy to do, and in the end, pretty much if yo can dream it, you can make it a menu.

  • Profile picture of Strypes Strypes said 6 months, 1 week ago ago:

    IMO, PP for short form work and MC for long form work. Premiere is great for its integration with After Effects. FCP was good for a while, but that moment’s gone. The source code was old, and the outdated architecture meant that there were a lot of camera formats that required long hours transcoding or getting them into the QT wrapper. FCP’s media management is okaaay… Nothing fantastic.

    MC is probably the only tool with a managed media workflow, where once you set your media creation settings, everything is managed for you and you don’t have to bat an eyelid. Shot on XDCAM EX? AMA it and start editing. When you have time at the end of the day, consolidate it into Avid media and Avid will manage the media properly. That’s one step faster than FCP. And the consolidating media is fast. For long form, MC is robust. Probably the most robust and stable tool around. If I was working in long form now, I’d cut on an Avid.

    PPro… PPro is still a little quirky. Send a clip to After Effects, hit cancel and you get an error message. There is no real time trimming function (or maybe I haven’t found it yet). But otherwise, it is fast, powerful, natively supports many camera formats without transcoding, and it integrates easily with After Effects. And After Effects is the swiss army knife of desktop editing. If you don’t have After Effects, get it.

    Do you need a graphics card with CUDA? Maybe. Or maybe not. This is a breakdown of the Mercury playback engine, straight from the horse’s mouth:

    http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2011/02/cuda-mercury-playback-engine-and-adobe-premiere-pro.html

    For me, maybe not. From what I can see, CUDA does not decode those 8 angles of multicam H.264 files from the DSLR. It does effects, and I am not heavy on effects. So yea, for short form work with the client bringing in all kinds of footage, PPro rules.

    Where does that put FCP? With its aging architecture, and EOL status, it doesn’t put it much in good stead. FCP’s strongest apps have always been FCP and Color, both EOL’ed. Color is now replaced by the more powerful DaVinci Resolve for a low cost color corrector, and the DaVinci Resolve is scaleable in its use all the way up to to major motion pictures. Adobe also announced its acquisition of Iridas SpeedGrade. So that is a development we are all waiting for.

    Motion? The version of Motion in FCS 3 was buggy, and when I had to do a project in Motion, I had to delete some effects after a while and re-apply it because the bezier handles disappeared on the mask, or Smoothcam won’t show me the sliders when I switched from “stabilize” to “smooth”. And I haven’t found a way to use groups like AE’s null object. And there is no adjustment layer like in After Effects or Avid.

    The smoothcam feature in FCP 7 is broken. It doesn’t work properly on interlaced footage. At least not on my ProRes 1080i50 clips. Multicam is buggy and relatively patchy, but it works. Try exporting a multicam project to XML and re-importing it back into FCP. Something is screwy, so you may not be able to use XML based workflows such as ClipFinder to wrangle your multicam clips shot on RED. FCP’s interface is marginally better for effects work than Avid MC, although MC has SpectraMatte which is a better keyer than the built in chroma key in FCP, and MC has Animatte and Paint and a tracker. Avid also has Fluid Motion, which is a motion compensated re-timer. FCP has been kept on life support for a while because the xml nature of the software left it very open to 3rd party developers.

    FCP’s editing features was okay. Colored markers was a huge thing. And it beat Avid’s segment mode (FCP is always in segment mode), but FCP trimming tools were inferior to Avid’s.

    A year ago, I would have said to wait for FCP X. Now the die is cast. As much as FCP X makes a good business model for Apple, targeting the dads-cutting-birthday-parties-for-their-kids market and hoping that market will have a trickle up effect to the pro market does not impress me at all. FCP X is a product with zero pro capabilities. It is buggy. It is buggier than FCP 7 ever was, and aside from the 64 bit architecture, I am not a huge fan of how the interface in FCP X works. Some like it (relatively few in the pro market), and the best anyone can say about it is that it is not ready yet.

    If you own a post facility, a knee jerk reaction isn’t the best option, so you may want to stick with FCP 7 until you see sizeable benefits in other NLEs. And what sort of sizeable benefits? The amount of time you have to spend transcoding when the client brings you multicam footage shot on the DSLR, new tools, compatibility with new cameras, better editing features, lower cost of migrating to the next platform… Some of the features are there now- Avid MC announced support for AJA, BMD, Bluefish, and Matrox cards. PPro is fast with AVCHD formats. And these are two pretty good NLEs with features that FCP doesn’t even offer.

    As an editor, start learning, because the sooner you know the workflow, the sooner you can earn your cash when everyone starts switching to MC or PP, the easier the transition then. Also, it doesn’t hurt to know more. I already bought both MC5.5 and Production Premium and I have been using MC at work for the last month.

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