120 minutes on one DVD?!!!

[tsloc]

The Compressor 2 "Best quality 120" preset shows you should be able to fit 120 minutes of video at average bitrate of 5.0 and max of 7.5 (using AC3 audio).

I'm not getting anything close to this!!! What's wrong? I've searched the site and see that others seem to be getting what the Compressor presets say. Why not me? I want in on this!!!

I have only 105 minutes of video and AC3 audio at 192 Kbps. Using DSP 4. I have one still 4MB jpeg menu that is my First Play. No transitions are set in DSP. (I tested a project without the still menu and it only saved me .1 GBs or less).

In order to get this on a 4.7GB disc, I had to incrementally drop the Compressor settings until finally DSP allowed the burn at a 4.25GB file size (shown in the resulting dialog when clicking Format). The setting that works is 3.5 ave. and 6.3 max - much lower than 5.0 average shown by Compressor or Larry Jordan's recommendation of 5.5 in order to get 2 hours of footage! (I actually could probably increase the 3.5 ave a bit, but 4.0 created too big a file. At 3.5 the Finder file size for the m2v is 3.64GB. At 4.0 ave. it was 4.12GB. My AC3 at 192Kbps is only 143.7MB).

I know a 4.7GB disc for some reason can't actually use all 4.7GB for a burn (only 4.3)...But, I would assume that the Compressor presets are talking about a standard DVD-R disc and taking this into account. What's going on here?

[Guy Cochran]

VBR - Variable Bit Rate encoding. Does your footage contain a lot of movement? 2-Pass VBR has the initial pass "looking" at all motion in every single frame and how they compare to previous and next frame. The 2nd pass is when the actual encode occurs. If you have lots of static images, the encoder can drop down the bit rate. With a lot of action and frequent cuts, you get a higher bit rate as it rides closer to your max. This is most likely the scenario. Does the resulting disc you've produces thus far look pixelated/heavily compressed?

[tsloc]

Thanks Guy. I'm familiar with VBR and CBR. The entire piece is very low action - 3 separate, talking head interviews; each with a different, yet static background. The "heads" are simply doing the standard nod and move that heads tend to do. This would be very low action, overall, right?

The current, resulting disc does look compressed and lossy. Not outrageously bad, but worse than I want it to look. A far cry from the original XL-1s sharpness and even from a 5 minute video produced from the same material (encoded at 7.0 CBR).

Just seems like there is no way to get 120 minutes at a 5.5 VBR average (unless it was a still picture the whole time!). I'm sure if I could move my 3.5 to a 5.5 the results would be way better.

Bringing the max down and the ave. up won't do anything but increase my file size, right?

[Guy Cochran]

Give this a try. Export a QuickTime movie from FCP of your project.
Go to DVDSP>Preferences>Encoding
Change your settings to Two Pass VBR 5 and 6.5 - Encode on Build
Import your QuickTime movie and your AC3 file
Drag them both into a track (delete the QuickTime's Uncompressed audio and replace it with the AC3).

Build and Burn. (Put your field order on Auto)

How does it look?

[tsloc]

I gave it a try and I come out with a total 4.97 GB file size. Too big to burn. Otherwise, I'm sure it would look much better than my other settings. This result seems to be the same as I was getting through Compressor (which I guess is the same encoder anyway).

Is all the "hype" regarding 2 hours on a single disc at a 5.0 VBR bitrate average NOT taking into account that a 4.7 GB disc only has about 4.3 GB of usable space? What gives here?

[Guy Cochran]

Dang!

Sorry to send you on a wild goose chase. I have encoded 1:45 with these settings and came out fine. I'm really starting to wonder about the content of your footage...this is very strange.

The 4.3GB fact is just like a hard drive. When you buy a 250GB HD it formats down to a bit less. A 4.7GB DVD will always format down to 4.3GB.

If you're not short on time, I think it would be beneficial to try another round. Change the encoding prefs in DVD SP to 4.0 and 6.0.

Let us know how the VBR encoding at 4.0 and 6.0 in DVD SP looks against encoding in Compressor at 3.5 and 6.3.

And just to throw you a curve ball, there are better Mac MPEG2 compressors out there.

Bit Vice - http://www.innobits.se/
Main Concept - http://www.mainconcept.com/mpeg_macencoder.shtml

[tsloc]

I'll give it a try. My client is out of the country right now... When I exported the movie from FCP, I did NOT do it self-contained. Maybe I'll try that too.

But, just to clarify, your 1:45 piece actually fit on a DVD?!

[Josh]

Could it be uncompressed audio that is causing the project not to fit?

[tsloc]

All the of the audio I'm using for each trial is AC3 at 192 Kbps (143.7 MB file in the Finder).

What I've just noticed as I get underway with Guy's 2nd recommendation is a difference between the file sent out of FCP NOT self-contained and the one that IS self-contained. The DSP file estimator shows a difference of .7 GB when switching the 2 video tracks in the DSP timeline BEFORE building (audio stays AC3).

So, I wondered if the original non-self-containted file had an "issue." I re-exported the movie from FCP using QT set to non-self-containted. In the Finder the file looks exactly the same as the original non-self-contained. HOWEVER, in DSP when using the NEW non-self-contained video the size estimator shows exactly the same as when using the self-contained video!!!

Ughhh... How did this "little" issue creep in? I'll build the project with the new non-self-contained file at 5.0/6.5 and see what happens. Talk to you in several hours...!

[tsloc]

Well, the results are in... THERE IS NO CHANGE! After most of the day encoding on my D2.5 G5, the file size comes out exactly the same - 4.97 GB - TOO BIG TO BURN! What I've discovered regarding the DSP difference in file size estimation is probably the parsing data. DSP (or Compressor) adds parsing data to files that it is has encoded. So there is nothing wrong with any of my FCP exports. It's just that the files that have been encoded already include parsing data, which I guess amounts to 100s of MBs.

Anyway, bottom line, I'm back to the same spot and highly in doubt of being able to ever fit 2 hours of video on a disc at anywhere near a 5.0 average VBR bitrate. Can't figure this one out...

[autophile]

I've just about given up on using Compressor. I've had extremely good luck using ffmpegX (http://homepage.mac.com/major4/).

--Rob

[Brian Peat]

Can you go to a dual layer disc for this project? It might be the only way you'll get the quality you want out of it.

I consistently put up to 2:20 on DVDs weekly for my church on single layer DVDs, but we've tweaked the bit rate so we're just barely filling up the disc. Yes, you can see the compression if you watch the edges of the person speaking (they're all classroom style stuff), and sometimes you can see it in the transitions (we're using 1 pass vbr at the moment), but the people receiving these have taken a huge step up from the VHS we used to send. Overall, the average consumer wouldn't know the difference with our stuff, it's the pros who'd spot it right off and say, wow, you've got a big of compression artifacts there around the edge. The other thing that probably helps us is the speaker is standing in front of a totally black background, which helps mask the compression.

Anyway, You can cram a LOT onto a DVD, but you're going to comprimise at some point with the quality. The question is, will the end user even notice? Remember, they never say your XL1 footage.

As an example, I shot a children's musical once for my old church. I did 2 cameras and an audio feed off the board. I spend a week editing back and forth, even fixed some mistakes in solos by using footage I shot in rehearsal. When I was done, I dumped it to to VHS and was almost ashamed of the result. Kids faces were a bit mumified, it all just looked like crap compared to Digital...the result? The parents were extatic. I forgot that the average parent shoots a shakey video from the back row with their old crappy camcorder, no audio (or worse, the audience sound is closer than the kids are since the camera is in the back). They were used to such bad quality, that mine looked amazing compared to what they normally got. Just goes to show, quality is all relative.

[tsloc]

I would love to go to dual-layer. However, lately my budget for new hardware is maxed out.

[pmvideo]

You will not be able to get 120 minutes of acceptable quality video using compressor in its current state. I have resorted to using QuickTime to convert my footage to 2 pass m2v files

Simply export your timeline from FCP as a quick time file self contained or not it does not matter. Open it up in QuickTime and export as an m2v file.

I think you will find the settings easy to use and the end result will be acceptable video at good quality.

I have used it to burn 1:50 minutes at 2 pass VBR and it works as expected.

Keep in mind that you will need to uncheck audio processing in the QuickTime settings before you do the compression then use compressor to create your AC3 audio file. Its a work around but the only option to those of us who bought into Apples claims of compressor 2.

Good Luck

Tom

[videonewbee]

Where in QT do you see export as m2v files. Please help. I've looked in the export drop down menu, and m2v is not an option. I see DV, umcompress, jpeg, etc..... please eleborate.